Title:Planning the Autonomous Future: Episode 4, featuring Rebecca Hunter and John Estrada
جنیفر و کلی با ربکا هانتر از کراون کسل و جان استرادا از سیستم های eTrans می نشینند تا دقیقاً چگونگی ارتباط زیرساخت ها با وسایل نقلیه خودران را بررسی کنند. ربکا توضیح می دهد که چرا اتصال به یک شبکه بی سیم و سیمی نیاز دارد، چگونه متراکم شدن زیرساخت ها بر ایمنی ترافیک تأثیر می گذارد و چرا طرح جامع باید به این مسائل بپردازد. جان به فناوری‌های مختلفی که در این زمینه مورد استفاده قرار می‌گیرند، مانند LiDAR (که مخفف “نور، تشخیص و محدوده” است) و سیستم‌های لمسی، و شهرهایی در سراسر ایالات متحده که برخی از این ابزارها را در عمل می‌بینند، می‌پردازد. جنیفر هناگان معاون مدیر تحقیقات APA و مدیر مرکز جوامع سبز. Kelley Coyner مدیر عامل Mobility e3، یک شرکت رهبری حمل و نقل است که به جوامع کمک می کند تا ناوگان های AV را برنامه ریزی، آزمایش و استقرار دهند. به قسمت های دیگر سریال گوش دهید: قسمت ۱: https://youtu.be/-HqU0Ck6hm0
قسمت ۲: https://youtu.be/Q6IR5gp5TPQ
قسمت ۳: https://youtu.be/kG–3OVpHiE
قسمت ۵: https://youtu.be/KZSiMRE5vxY
درباره خودروهای خودران بیشتر بدانید: https://www.planning.org/av/
به قسمت های دیگر پادکست APA گوش دهید: https://www.planning.org/podcasts/
اشتراک از طریق RSS: http://feeds.feedburner.com/americanplanningassociation (برچسب‌ها برای ترجمه -راننده اتومبیل
قسمتی از متن فیلم: Welcome to the American Planning Association podcast this episode is part of our series on planning the autonomous future which looks at the many ways in which autonomous technology will impact our cities and regions mobility and the planning profession I’m your host Jennifer Hennigan deputy research director and manager of the
Green Communities Center at the american planning association with muse my co-host kelly corner i’m kelly coiner I’m the CEO of mobility III a new technology consulting firm that focuses on helping communities make sure that automated mobility makes them more accessible healthier and safer places to live in this episode we’ll be focusing
On infrastructure our first guest today is Rebecca hunter from crown castle you tell us a little bit about crow hustle sure first thanks for having me we’re always excited to talk about infrastructure so Rebecca hunter with crown castle we are the largest shared telecommunications infrastructure provider in the u.s. we have cell phone
Towers small cell infrastructure fiber and edge data centers so we focus really what we think is on an end-to-end connectivity solution from an infrastructure perspective why should a plan or care about infrastructure when it comes to autonomous vehicles well I mean that’s a great question and that’s definitely something that we talked to
Planners and cities about that when you look at connected on Thomas vehicles you know you think connectivity there there is a connected piece and autonomous piece that requires both wireless and wired connectivity and so when you’re looking at overall when you start thinking about planning for transportation in general whether big
And autonomous or just regular transportation what are your what does your streetscape look like what does your utility infrastructure look like and so if they’re planning for the streetscape or curb usage or you know kind of a repurposing a lot of that without the right utility infrastructure in place
They’re not going to be looking at it comprehensively or strategically so really that planning phase now has to be in place as we evolve toward more and more connected and autonomous vehicles so it really is a very important component of an overall transportation comprehensive plan and this is really
New to the planning field because I mean historically that’s nine times out of ten when a planner is talking about infrastructure that person is talking about roads concrete asphalt curbs maybe we’re getting into utility lines but if that it’s probably water yeah and and there’s a lot of conversation right now
Even at all levels of government about infrastructure you know what is infrastructure and including broadband in the definition of infrastructure is something that has been evolving over the last couple of years and really think now is that time to make sure it is included so when you’re talking about
Spending money on streets on roads on sewer systems on on electric utilities if you if they happen to own their own utility you have to start adding in broadband because that is what people are looking at you can’t really have a conversation about transportation economic development public safety or
Education really all those use cases and verticals without talking about wireless and wired connectivity within a municipality so some of the first autonomous vehicles obviously are working without broadband or without special extra sensors or connectivity but what is it that’s so important about having a stronger communications infrastructure when it comes to full
Deployment of autonomous vehicles yeah when as you look at more and more deployment of connected and autonomous vehicles at scale right there’s a lot of pilot projects right now and and there is a lot of data that is shared like the vehicle to vehicle which is was kind of
The starting point for a lot of this connected vehicle but as you move to autonomous vehicle you think of the the sheer amount of volume of data that not only that vehicle needs to operate and make independent decisions but also how much data is that is that
Vehicle collecting as its as its driving through and how much useful data can be provided and shared with other vehicles with the municipality about you know various conditions on the roads or or intersections safety so it really comes down to what we think is is really a
Public safety issue you want to have safe connected and autonomous vehicles and so to do that to have the dense connected infrastructure that’s not just car to car but but vehicle to some sort of infrastructure and a lot of that infrastructure is going to be in in the
Rights of way through whether it be like said the addition of data infrastructure that’s already off the car or you know again data that can be provided to the car from outside sources so it’s it’s a public safety issue as there’s you know more and more decisions like that we you
Know mentioned that there’s going to be a low latency requirement – yeah well so the latency component of it is is how fast does this data go free car to car or car to vehicle and so when you think of about a decision how fast a car like
Set like like some of the examples that that we use is you know for child right the ball rolls into the road right in a child on you know goes out to try to get that ball well if that’s an autonomous vehicle that car has to take that data
And make an instantaneous decision to stop you know if you’re one second late that could be a real problem you know with the industry as a whole and you want you want to make sure you prevent fatalities injuries accidents and by doing that you need to have very very low latency decision-making criteria
Which again comes back to the densification of infrastructure both wireless and word can you like describe for someone like me didn’t really get it what densification means well densification is more of everything so we are going to need more fiber connectivity whether it be in the ground or pulled
Depending on the situation and it’s going to be more sensors more antennas just identified network that’s going to be required wherever you have connected or autonomous vehicles and it’s gonna serve not only you know getting commercial uses but municipal you know the agent you know it’s kind of smart
City and where transportation falls in that but this is the the conversation about is there going to be an antenna or a sensor on every pole in a city is there gonna need to be how much fiber do you have to have fiber to every home to
Have to have fiber at every building so it really is how do you take network connectivity infrastructure deep enough to provide all these use cases that are going to be coming and we really believe that transportation if you look at it long term as it goes from connected to
Autonomous that densification that real need for a lot of fiber a lot of sensors a lot of antennas is really gonna be the foundation to make that a reality so I don’t know if this is too simplistic but is greater density does that mean faster data speeds it could that they that’s
Definitely one of the hopes I think and one of the things you hear about 5g which you know again has multiple definitions depending on who you talk to but one of the definite improvements will be speed you know the speed and some of it again is going back to just
Consumers on their wireless devices but also what it’s going to be is machine to machine or if you know it’s devices talking to devices like cars talking to other cars or cars talking to you know a data center again making independent you know decisions so there is going to need
To be improved speed and a lot of that is going to be related to the need for again this more infrastructure which is gonna you know take pretty much all the vertical infrastructure a city has and say how can we use this in the best possible way
To meet these ever evolving demands for attachments on vertical infrastructure and then fiber whether it be ground again or attached to you know poles is there a city that’s begun this process there are a lot of cities that that have pilots right you know and I think that there’s a lot of conversation
About you know different pilots and different places and there are certain cities that are doing bits and piece of this you know pieces of this if you look you know one that comes to my you know Kansas City they did their two linear miles of smart city okay you know on
Their transit line so which was a great you know idea and a great concept and its really really working well you know Boston has some very very smart intelligent intersections that they’re looking to replicate but I think one of the challenges is really taking these pilots and taking them at scale there’s
Really nothing at this point that’s really at a city scale and there’s lots of different organizations that are trying to you know coordinate like what was good about this pilot or that pilot and from a Navy perspective you know the d-o-t has certain cities or certainly owe to the Department of Transportation
Has certain you know vehicle test beds or cities that they’re working with again on these pilot programs so a lot I think it’s going to be how do you take that a great pilot program and take it really city scale and you know how do you take something that works in one
Corridor and say okay how does that then translate to a row that maybe isn’t as straight that hasn’t been you know replanned for bus rapid transit or a new streetscape idea you know how do you take it to suburban and then there’s a whole nother conversation you know how
How eventually does this roll out to rural areas in places that you know that may not be ready for it right now well clearly we now we have an understanding of why this wireless infrastructure is important but if you’re a planner who’s more customed to dealing with land use
And zoning and those types of issues where do you start I think when we talk to cities and plan we talk to them first about comprehensive plan you know so I think that really you have to have a vision of where you want to go you know how do you
And you have to start incorporating these concepts just just like the conversations around a V and C V come you know how do we do mobility as a service how do we do streetscape or curb planning the same concept needs to be included in that in that bigger picture
Of what do we want our utility infrastructure to look like what do we what do we want our you know kiosks for poles or this vertical bus shelters whatever else how do we look at this again as a whole inclusive but you can’t forget about the the connectivity infrastructure piece when you’re looking
At a streetscape and there has to be you know flexibility on both sides because at the end of the day when we talk to planners and mayors and governors everybody wants the technology everybody wants it to be safe and secure technology but how do you really dig
Deep and have that next level of conversation and and I think it starts with a comprehensive plan because I think it’s hard right now a lot of people are rewriting a lot of current planning code before they know where they want to go before they they have a
Vision and so they’re trying to make decisions and change things now which then ultimately may not align with that future vision and you know and sometimes it is a hard conversation to have because you really have to engage your community you know as a from a planner perspective or community perspective
Because it is a lot about aesthetics and you know how do you want to use a sidewalk and how do you want to you know have you know the multimodal so but we think that unfortunately to some degree that the conversation about this infrastructure piece is missing in that
Larger conversation and I think if we could do one thing or help with one thing is just is to bring it to people’s attention to include it in that conversation so that they can have that that in goal that we all want right integrated technology in a better living
Space our second guest today is John Estrada from e-tron’s hi I’m John strata me Tran systems we build software solutions for connected technologies whether it’s the vehicle the vehicle vehicle to infrastructure vehicle to pedestrian or pedestrian infrastructure can you tell us about why you started adriennes yeah so I had a
Company that I was selling and the nature of that company was I wasn’t gonna go with it in the sale and trying to figure out what was the next thing to do this is about five years ago and I concluded that the next next thing was driverless cars that they were gonna
Totally change everything and started doing a little more investigating and realized it was coming sooner than later and that there are lots of opportunities so that’s why we as we did that investigation we learned more about connected technology and that’s really the fully formed e trance and that’s
Really the focus of our company so there’s been so much attention on art of cars really driverless and AV this and maybe that what level AV is that we’ve kind of lost a sense of perspective or sense of sort of knowledge about that this question about connectivity has
Been here for a long time so you tell me how connectivity connects with ABS sure yeah I mean even today people will say that their autonomous vehicles aren’t connected but they really are you get GPS information they share data on how the driving went they get instructions
On where to go so even even today with with that information you know they need that to move forward in the future world they can get a lot of benefit by getting information from other sources that they can’t get from cameras and lidar for example you can use a camera to
Determine that the light is red but you can’t use it to know that it’s going to in green in three seconds and if you slow your vehicle down just a little bit by the time you get to the light it’ll be green and that’ll provide a better
Light you can’t see around the corner the connected vehicle technology you can get that insight get that information I know that there is a vehicle coming another way so how does that work sitting around the corner so the communications the various technologies DSRC or dedicated short range communications is one
There’s 5g which is coming the next generation cellular technology and those technologies can go through walls think of it like the Wi-Fi in your house alright so you get Wi-Fi depending on your house that well it works but you know in the room where the Wi-Fi is it’s
Great you get further and further away it still works it has a little more challenges and this technology works the same way so we can go through buildings up to a point kind of go around the corner and so you can get insight into that that you otherwise can’t get with a
Camera or a light or a Raider so this would still be technology that would be on a vehicle is that right it’s generally so it’s communication so it’s got to be in two places all right it could be in the vehicle all right to get that information but the information is
Coming from probably from infrastructure so it could be a radio that’s attached to the traffic light or intersection it could be tied to a camera system that’s looking down the road or looking down the side road it could be coming from a cell phone so we have an application that’s
Designed to help specifically the visually impaired get through intersections right I challenge everyone the next time you’re standing at a complex intersection close your eyes and imagine getting across the street don’t do it I’m not recommending a genetic oh through so with the technology we can
Connect from the cell phone to the cloud connect the cloud to the traffic light so we know the information of when the lights green when the pedestrian light is on and then we can communicate from that to vehicles in the area so that vehicles can know that there’s a blind pedestrian
Or regular pedestrian in the intersection and then the pedestrian can get information on their cell phone about the light yes you have a green arrow to cross or no you don’t or as you’re wandering through the crosswalk you can notify you that you’re beginning to meander out of it and and the
Application vibrates so so what happed XR yes it’s a haptic sensor we specifically don’t have it tell them because they’re trained to listen like that’s the if you go through the training of how to get through an intersection it’s all been obviously if you can’t see it’s all based on hearing
So we didn’t want to add to the volume of noise so the phone will vibrate and just like you can have different ringtones you can have different vibration tones exactly right word but and so yeah and so it vibrates differently if you’re meandering to the left or if you’re meandering to the
Right and and look at intersections you know they’re not all north/south perfect right angles you know sorry there are all sorts of things so can really helpful so it’s not just about communicating with someone in a car or communicating to a car but it can but you can use the connected technology to
Communicate to pedestrians or bicyclists exactly yeah so people like simple acronyms so everything’s v to something via gold Oh ECMO vehicle Dex is everything vehicle to BV die for infrastructure Vita P for pedestrians although other than you know vehicle to vehicle most of it generally is coming the other way it’s the intersection
Giving information to the vehicle it’s the pedestrian giving information generally to the infrastructure and then to the vehicle not too many people have like DSRC enabled cell phones probably aren’t I’m sure there’s some research scientist somewhere who do but and you know that’s not something that’s
Coming soon but kind of by definition a cellphone can speak cellularly and so we’ll use that communication and other communications to the vehicle that makes a lot of sense that intersections are sort of the touch points since theoretically that’s where all these different vehicles and pedestrians and every transit mode is literally
Intersecting with one another so that seems like a logical place where you would be getting this information from well and what’s interesting in today’s world you know you think about vehicles and infrastructure they don’t really know anything about each other all right literally or that little place where the
Rubber hits the road is the only thing that a vehicle and the people who are planning infrastructure worry about because there’s a human being who does everyone all that interpretation you see a stop signs the human being that tells the car to stop see a green lights a
Human being that says hey drive through well as we move towards more autonomous vehicles we need to replace that human being not just to do the driving but also with the other information that they’re gonna get and this is the best way to to pass that information on
Are you working on other technologies like this yes so we work on vehicle-to-vehicle communications so both with driven vehicles and with autonomous vehicles so we can pass information to the autonomous vehicle on the light you know what how long is it gonna be we can do the math that says
Hey if you slow down to this this rate you can make it for a green light we also do information like speed warnings curve warning school zone warnings we’re doing emergency vehicle preemption alright so as we know the emergency vehicles coming to the light we can
Control the light so it’ll be green by the time it in transit vehicle prioritization so it’s emergency vehicle you kind of were moving you to green transit vehicle well yeah well my is anyone using this pedestrian safety technology on the street yes we’re just rolling it out in
A number of locations so on a stretch of roads in Cary North Carolina on a corridor in downtown Las Vegas our office is in Northern Virginia we have a couple of sites there one at a Department of Transportation Research Center but also at an intersection called hilltop and prosperity right
Outside of our office and this is two roads two lanes in each direction has a ditional complication of there’s a little cutout lane to make the right turn so it makes the the getting through the crosswalk a little more challenging so we we do that we’ve actually bought
Our own blindfold and cane we we practice it ourselves although we do have a rule that you can’t go by yourself and do that at all it is it it gives you a real sense of why as technology is needed just it’s scary it really is scary so in Las Vegas is at
The same quarter where the Navia autonomous shuttle is ready it’s right near there okay and so it’s just in a you know they wanted to play that’s their downtown tech corridor of which that is part of it and we are on another stretch of road so they get more roadside units so we
Also have DSRC which is the dedicated short range communications that can do the vehicle to infrastructure so we’re broadcasting out map message which describes the intersection and then the light information which is called signal phase and timing or a spat message of you what message a spat signal phase and
Timing but you have to write it with a lowercase a very particular like that do these technologies be used everywhere with the existing infrastructure that we have so you need the connectivity that you we talked about it early earlier in the in the podcast that’s an important part of it
We need the cell phone will connect to an application in the cloud so generally where we’re looking at deploying these things their cell phone coverage a very rural part of Montana you really don’t need help you know additional information to get across the street there’s probably not traffic lights but
Then you need the infrastructure because you need the intersections to be able to communicate back to a cloud-based system and everyone wants to gather data right at the end of the day the data may be some of the most valuable things for things we haven’t even envisioned yet
All right but today they don’t really know how many people cross intersections how many people push the ped button to get across and that sort of thing so this is an opportunity to gather a lot of a lot more information but you need that that infrastructure at connectivity
To be able to do it well and then if you add things like small cells it can improve the accuracy of the GPS or the global positioning to make the applications even even stronger I just think this is incredibly cool I like the idea of the haptic feedback being used
To sort of a rumble strip for pedestrians which I mean that that’s just a really cool idea is that something that’s at all involved in autonomous vehicle technology for at the stage we’re at now for someone who’s behind the wheel of a car but not fully
In control you know at level two or something like that there are similar things yes so you know autonomous vehicles today or even driven vehicles they can look to see if you’re wandering out of the lane and you’ll get won’t be your phone vibrating but you can get
Haptic feedback a lot of times it’s like in the seat itself you’ll get little poke and in fact I think one of the things that’s interesting I’ve been in one if you wandering or you have an issue to the right it’ll only poke you in the right side and your natural reaction is
To sort of jerk forward but only that way and in doing that you turn the wheel a little bit and kind of push yourself back in so yeah you have been one of the biggest challenges of course in in all this as long as we have drivers is how
Do you communicate with the driver in such a way that it’s meaningful and not distracting right right everything’s a big trade-off there that it’s a challenge he get away from that a bit once you start to get a ton of US vehicles but what’s on your wish list
For other ways to use this technology there’s a whole whole variety of things so one of them for example one of the big challenges of course all over especially in Northern Virginia Iowa is traffic alright and there’s limited funds for building new roads and those
Seem to be the more new roads you build just people just fill those up just as quickly using the connected vehicle technology will allow something called platooning and if you combine that with autonomous vehicles it will allow vehicles to ride much closer together much safer all right so
Today you need to leave a gap people don’t usually leave enough gap is a bit of a challenge and so if you can do that you can fit a lot more cars on the same roads at higher speeds so that’s one of the big things I think will really start
To see the benefits I kind of foresee you know we have things like HOT lanes today HOT lanes I think will be a good starting point for autonomous vehicle lanes that complete tune run closer together it also will help with trucking alright there’s a there’s a shortage of
Truck drivers today and you know limited number of hours that they can drive for good reason but if you can platoon trucks you can get much more Freight moved at at lower costs I think you know the connected vehicle they’ll be connecting bikes providing information on on that providing
Information to the light that a bike is coming so is a bike probably not going to slow down anyway it goes through the intersection so at least we couldn’t you know provide some information provide information to vehicles so I think it’s a real opportunity to make our roads
Safer and to save fuel and if I can tell you to slow down ahead of time every time you get your break and wasting gas so great well thank you so much John and Rebecca for being with us today and telling us a bit about the things we
Need to be considering in terms of infrastructure that we’ll need to get to this connected and autonomous future that we’re moving towards thank you thank you so much for having me today thanks for tuning in to another episode of the American Planning Association podcast you can listen to past episodes
At Planning org slash podcasts you can also subscribe to the podcast on iTunes and stitcher have an idea for a podcast email them to podcast at Planning org
ID: PZh1iW0YtDo
Time: 1528992743
Date: 2018-06-14 20:42:23
Duration: 00:29:40
